Location: Doberman Pinscher

Discussion: rawl dealReported This is a featured thread

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dnb3mlb
dnb3mlb
rawl deal
Mar 26 2009, 12:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2009, 12:55 PM EDT
i own an albino doberman and think they are geting the raw end from the dobe community.
my dobe is well manner dog better than most he loves children and loves to play with them
dogs on the other hand not sure if he wants to play are fight but still has not made no
signs of fighting them . he stays inside becouse of his skin and the only reason the
breeding people dont like them is becouse of the care that you have to give them and
they are so much better looking . scared they would lose to the better looking doberman
than what they have this is my oppenion on that.
CASPER THE FRIENDLY DOG is my dobermans name and it fits him well . no his ears are not cut
and he does have some skin problems but it is worth the time to put his cream on to have a
dog as fine as he is. the DPCA does not know what there are saying about not reconizing this
breed of doberman becouse surly he is a better lookind doberman. by the way i didnt like
dobermans till i got him so dpca needs to thank the albino for turning people like me
around to liking them.
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maximusandz
maximusandz
1. RE: rawl deal
Mar 27 2009, 8:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 8:36 AM EDT
"i own an albino doberman and think they are geting the raw end from the dobe community.
my dobe is well manner dog better than most he loves children and loves to play with them
dogs on the other hand not sure if he wants to play are fight but still has not made no
signs of fighting them . he stays inside becouse of his skin and the only reason the
breeding people dont like them is becouse of the care that you have to give them and
they are so much better looking . scared they would lose to the better looking doberman
than what they have this is my oppenion on that.
CASPER THE FRIENDLY DOG is my dobermans name and it fits him well . no his ears are not cut
and he does have some skin problems but it is worth the time to put his cream on to have a
dog as fine as he is. the DPCA does not know what there are saying about not reconizing this
breed of doberman becouse surly he is a better lookind doberman. by the way i didnt like
dobermans till i got him so dpca needs to thank the albino for turning people like me
around to liking them. "
Remember papers are just that, papers! Casper is lucky to have someone who cares for his health, many dogs are chained out side. My husband had a doberman, who was well behaved and could go to school, but he was protective at home.
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thatlldolu
thatlldolu
2. RE: rawl deal
Mar 27 2009, 5:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 5:21 PM EDT
Pedigree papers should mean something. They are a genetic history of the dog, and should be taken seriously, at least by the breeder and their breed assoc. Casper is indeed lucky to have someone who cares about his health and wellbeing, but dissing the breed assoc for not recognizing his merits is ridiculous. In many breeds, excessive or total white signifies major genetic flaws. There are other genetic mutations that are linked to white factoring,. such as blindness, deafness, and congenital heart defects. In some breeds it is referred to as Lethal White (there is an excellent website to be found addressing genetics as it pertains to Australian Shepherds if you google this) It is not just a question of keeping the dog out of the sun and other skin sensitivities. No responsible breeder would deliberately breed for this, and if a breeding produced albino or white-factored puppies then it should never be repeated, and one or both parents should be fixed. Beware of ads promoting "rare" white pups when the breed is usually recognised for darker markings. Someone is breeding lemons, and conning puppy buyers to turn a profit. The risks are far higher that you will end up with astronomical vet bills, suffering and heartache sooner or later. Similar issues are found in breeds that can produce merle coats (patches of grey/blue or red). Merling is known as an "incomplete dominant" gene. Two merled dogs should never be bred together, or the lethal white gene will surface - maybe not in all the pups, but it is a dangerous and unethical road to travel.

Some breeds are known for their white coats, but care is taken that skin around their eyes and nose is black, not pink or light brown. The darker the pigment, the better. Dogs with pink or light brown noses and pink pigment around their eyes, should be avoided, and certainly never bred.

I do not breed dogs. In fact, I spay and neuter all that come to me. I run a Rescue.
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maximusandz
maximusandz
3. RE: rawl deal
Mar 27 2009, 7:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2009, 7:06 PM EDT
"Pedigree papers should mean something. They are a genetic history of the dog, and should be taken seriously, at least by the breeder and their breed assoc. Casper is indeed lucky to have someone who cares about his health and wellbeing, but dissing the breed assoc for not recognizing his merits is ridiculous. In many breeds, excessive or total white signifies major genetic flaws. There are other genetic mutations that are linked to white factoring,. such as blindness, deafness, and congenital heart defects. In some breeds it is referred to as Lethal White (there is an excellent website to be found addressing genetics as it pertains to Australian Shepherds if you google this) It is not just a question of keeping the dog out of the sun and other skin sensitivities. No responsible breeder would deliberately breed for this, and if a breeding produced albino or white-factored puppies then it should never be repeated, and one or both parents should be fixed. Beware of ads promoting "rare" white pups when the breed is usually recognised for darker markings. Someone is breeding lemons, and conning puppy buyers to turn a profit. The risks are far higher that you will end up with astronomical vet bills, suffering and heartache sooner or later. Similar issues are found in breeds that can produce merle coats (patches of grey/blue or red). Merling is known as an "incomplete dominant" gene. Two merled dogs should never be bred together, or the lethal white gene will surface - maybe not in all the pups, but it is a dangerous and unethical road to travel.

"
You guys are right, I just have strays and pound dogs so I do not know or understand all intricacies involved. I am sorry for the grief that is caused by a rigid organization. Perhaps some one will read this and make a change. You have my sympathy and best wishes.

Respectfully, Max's mom
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maximusandz
maximusandz
4. RE: rawl deal
Mar 28 2009, 12:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 28 2009, 12:07 PM EDT
"You guys are right, I just have strays and pound dogs so I do not know or understand all intricacies involved. I am sorry for the grief that is caused by a rigid organization. Perhaps some one will read this and make a change. You have my sympathy and best wishes.

Respectfully, Max's mom"
This has been very helpful to me, I had a couple of austrailian shepards as a child, and one was a merle, people love the blue eyes. The others were red, and black. I loved the merle, but he was a bit wacky, but healthy. We were lucky that he lived a long life.
My sympathies for anyone who has been 'taken", but buyers should do their research, before buying or bringing home any dog.
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dnb3mlb
dnb3mlb
5. RE: rawl deal
Mar 28 2009, 3:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 28 2009, 3:09 PM EDT
So what they are saying is that anything or anyone that is albino should be fixed not to breed
they cant help they were born that way. Makes it sound like they should be put down.
Casper was given to me by a friend that works for a vet he had contracted parvo as a young
puppy and died on the table twice and brought back and doctored back to health for another
chance to live, dont know weather i rescued him or just got lucky. I do understand what you
saying but dont diss your breed because of missing gene that makes the color not somthing
that is growing off of them they just are simply white. I do understand what they are saying
about breeders who are breeding for money insted of breed and i dont agree with that
practice its not right and puts dogs in the street and homeless. I understand what the DPCA
is saying about not leting them is shows cause what you look for in a doberman are there
colors because that is what everyone knows them by . I dont intend to breed him even though
i have had the chance to, but i dont think he should be looked down upon as a MUTATION
simply because of being albino he is still a ful blooded DOBERMAN and should be
treated as such not no mutation. the only med problems with my albino is he gets rashes,
he sees good and hears real good. I dont wish to tick breeder off but i think they could give
albinos a little more kindness than they do. I would like thank you for being a Rescurer
and giving dogs and cats if any another chance at a good life may god bless you for that.
Just another note vet bill consist of shots and cream and antibiotics for rash But hes only
three. This is not about just my dog its for ALL ALBINOS.
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thatlldolu
thatlldolu
6. RE: rawl deal
Mar 28 2009, 4:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 28 2009, 4:04 PM EDT
"So what they are saying is that anything or anyone that is albino should be fixed not to breed
they cant help they were born that way. Makes it sound like they should be put down.
"
No, it does not say that Casper should have been put down, simply that he should never be bred. Love him for the unique dog that he is, but it would be very unwise and unhealthy to produce puppies with his genetic issues. I respect that you have chosen not to do so.

For the record, ethical breeders do put "lethal white" puppies (and other pups showing deformities and obvious genetic defects) down at birth and never breed those lines again. It is heartbreaking, but then so is having to euthanize shelter dogs simply because no one wants them. Those dogs were once pups, produced as a commodity, bought on impulse (or without enough education and commitment), and discarded for convenience.

No one chooses the hand they were dealt, and few of us can claim to be perfect. Few people end up with perfect pets, but we love them with their flaws, and they forgive us for ours. The hardest part of loving our pets is that we usually outlive them, and have to know when they are telling us that their suffering is beyond relief. Those who give a pet a second (or sometimes third or fourth) chance to live a safe and loved life are indeed special. I'm sure Casper tells you that every day!
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maximusandz
maximusandz
7. RE: rawl deal
Mar 28 2009, 4:27 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 28 2009, 4:27 PM EDT
"No, it does not say that Casper should have been put down, simply that he should never be bred. Love him for the unique dog that he is, but it would be very unwise and unhealthy to produce puppies with his genetic issues. I respect that you have chosen not to do so.

For the record, ethical breeders do put "lethal white" puppies (and other pups showing deformities and obvious genetic defects) down at birth and never breed those lines again. It is heartbreaking, but then so is having to euthanize shelter dogs simply because no one wants them. Those dogs were once pups, produced as a commodity, bought on impulse (or without enough education and commitment), and discarded for convenience.

No one chooses the hand they were dealt, and few of us can claim to be perfect. Few people end up with perfect pets, but we love them with their flaws, and they forgive us for ours. The hardest part of loving our pets is that we usually outlive them, and have to know when they are telling us that their suffering is beyond relief. Those who give a pet a second (or sometimes third or fourth) chance to live a safe and loved life are indeed special. I'm sure Casper tells you that every day!"
your message is heartfelt and is very touching. No one or no pet should be singled out for differences. That is why this site is good, it accepts the views of many, and should not be biased.
Your dog Casper and mine, as well as others are living on second and third chances because of us. I think that because of us, these dogs are miracle dogs, purchased, rescued, or with medical difficulties. No dog should be euthanized, unless they are suffering. Organizations are just that, which have their rules, to prevent mis-breeding of animals. Many albino animals have severe medical problems, and even die. You and your doberman are the lucky ones.
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meyati
meyati
8. RE: rawl deal
Mar 28 2009, 9:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 28 2009, 9:23 PM EDT
I think that we can learn something from Aussies and horses. An Aussie merle dog should be bred with a solid colored mate to ensure healthy pups or they can be blind or deaf.
People will breed a thoroughbred with a QuarterHorse for a better personal work or rodeo horse -no papers for a male-unless it's gelded and meets body standards. A mare can't get papers-people can breed her-but need to explain why it doesn't have papers-these breeds of horses have different types of necks, jaws & hindquarters.
Most breed associations don't want white dogs bred- or horses, as skin cancer is a big problem-the type of cancer goes into the intestines. The reasons for not having pink around the eyes are that the dog is unable to maintain good eye health and it just looks unhealthy, which is bad for the breed. Lippanzaners of
Austria seem to be the only breed immune to this genetic problem.
If you think that the dog standards are tough-a quarter horse with an all white face and/or large white patches on the body can't be registered as quarterhorses. Lots of people lost lots of money because of this. Now quarterhorses that have white patches can be registered in the American Paint Horse Association. The American Pinto Association will accept Arabians-Morgans-etc.
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meyati
meyati
9. RE: rawl deal
Mar 28 2009, 9:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 28 2009, 9:19 PM EDT
Have you thought of Doggles? Goggles for dogs that will help protect your Doberman's eyes fron sun damage and resulting health problems. They cost less than $20. Do a search for Doggles & it will list all sorts of places that sell them. Do you find this valuable?    
maximusandz
maximusandz
10. RE: rawl deal
Mar 29 2009, 3:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 29 2009, 3:43 PM EDT
"Have you thought of Doggles? Goggles for dogs that will help protect your Doberman's eyes fron sun damage and resulting health problems. They cost less than $20. Do a search for Doggles & it will list all sorts of places that sell them.
"
I had never thought of that.........Good idea. I had two students who could not be exposed to the light, as it caused severe burns.vvthey had to be covered by blankets to and from the school bus.
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meyati
meyati
11. RE: rawl deal
Mar 29 2009, 11:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 29 2009, 11:09 PM EDT
Last night, 03/28/09 Dog 101 had a segment on boxers. 18% of white boxers have cancer-besides being deaf and/or blind. Considering the out right mistreatment and abuse that many dogs suffer, I can understand why a breeder would put a poor puppy down before it matured with painful and deadly health problems. Some good owners aren't really too observent, so health problems aren't noticed until the dog or cat is limping badly. As a breeder selling a dog to someone can have it's downsides-what if the dog ended up being dumped because it has cancer or ending up down the line with someone that doesn't know that it's deaf or has cancer among other problems. The Doberman Assoc. might seem like bunch of snobs-but they are trying to prevent all this misery that a dog might have. Apparently the Doberman people aren't the only ones concerned with these problems. You say that your albino dog is basically healthy-that's only because the association has demanded that healthy Dobermans be bred. Do you find this valuable?