Discussion: "Designer" Dogs?

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conexxions3	"Designer" Dogs? Mar 24 2007, 9:18 AM EDT What most fail to understand is that almost ALL dogs breeds ARE DESIGNER Dogs! VERY few dog breeds are "Ancient" breeds. My little Italian Greyhound - is an Ancient Breed. My Beagle, is an Ancient breed (both over 2000 years). About 60-80% (my estimate) of dog breeds have had HUMAN intervention to create them! Why is it NOW that people are saying its wrong? Geez, we wouldnt have some wonderful, wonderful breeds of dogs if that had been said 50 years ago. Its not like there was some magic moment in time that it suddenly became WRONG to mix breeds of dogs. Sorry, i just get a bit irritated at silly things. Post reply 6 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
Posted Anonymously	1. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 25 2007, 6:30 PM EDT I agree with you, but I think the thing that most people get upset about is the fact that there are so many dogs in shelters without homes that are already mixes. It seems to be a separate problem to me. Something needs to be done about responsible pet ownership, which means spaying or neutering your pets and not letting them roam freely about (so that we don't have unwanted/unplanned puppies). Overpopulation is the reason there are so many mixes in shelters out there. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Posted Anonymously	2. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Apr 6 2007, 12:04 PM EDT "About 60-80% (my estimate) of dog breeds have had HUMAN intervention to create them! " You have your facts wrong, most dog breeds except for a few toys were created to help people, yes people were involved just as they were with your italian greyhound and beagle they did not evolve on thier own. If people weren't invoved in the creation of dogs most dogs would revert back to a dingo style dog or saluki/solughi type dog, People created these dogs for a reason, these dogs had a purpose besides walking on a leash and looking pretty. Your entire sporting group (Golden retrivers, German Short hairs, Wiemmerianers, Irish, Gordon and English Setters) all had a pourpose such as retriving shot game, and finding the downed game. Your working group (dobermans, great pyrennese, Saint Bernards, and Bernese Mountian Dogs) all worked as gaurd, protection or rescue dogs. You terrier group (Wire Foxes, Airedales, Norfolk, Norwich, West Highland, and Welsh) all hunted vermin and rid the farm of unwanted creatures. The Hound Group (bloodhounds, irish wolf hounds, scottish deer hounds, and Afghan hounds) were all hunters and chasers/trackers. They had a pourpose. Many of your other breeds from other groups had a purpose too, but today to many people don't allow thier dogs to do what they were created for. Post reply 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
abbyk9	3. RE: "Designer" Dogs? May 10 2007, 5:20 AM EDT "What most fail to understand is that almost ALL dogs breeds ARE DESIGNER Dogs! VERY few dog breeds are "Ancient" breeds. My little Italian Greyhound - is an Ancient Breed. My Beagle, is an Ancient breed (both over 2000 years). About 60-80% (my estimate) of dog breeds have had HUMAN intervention to create them! Why is it NOW that people are saying its wrong? Geez, we wouldnt have some wonderful, wonderful breeds of dogs if that had been said 50 years ago. Its not like there was some magic moment in time that it suddenly became WRONG to mix breeds of dogs. Sorry, i just get a bit irritated at silly things. " I have to disagree with your post on several points. The first is your statement about the Italian Greyhound and the Beagle - they are not a pure ancient breed. While they may have ancient roots, both breeds have been created, and changed by humans. Over the years, humans have established a standard to breed to, and that's the foundation of today's Greyhound and today's Beagle. And that's also getting to the point. When people create a BREED, they do so with a purpose. Terriers were bred to go after vermin - therefore they needed to be quick, agile, prey driven, and low to the ground. In all established breeds, a breed goal and breed standard are set, and if you have two registered, proven (titled) dogs, you have a pretty good chance of saying that the pups from the litter will comply with the breed standard in looks as well as function (save for genetic mutations and recessive genes). Designer dogs cannot be considered dog breeds because nobody is actually making an effort to establish new BREEDS. They are setting no goals nor standards for the hybrids they are creating. They are not picking dogs that have the traits they want to pass on, or the traits they want to breed out, because that would take generations of selective breeding. I have not yet seen any breeder of designer dogs attempt to actually do anything but breeding two random dogs and selling the offspring for big money. One exception I will note are the Australian breeders who started the Australian Labradoodle breed. They were looking for a smart working dog that could assist the disabled - but one that would work for people with allergies. Their breeding program is actually that - a breeding program. With set goals, a set standard, and years of selective breeding and genetic research. Which is something these "designer dog" breeders cannot claim. Post reply 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
mlhooi	4. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 16 2007, 11:46 AM EDT "What most fail to understand is that almost ALL dogs breeds ARE DESIGNER Dogs! VERY few dog breeds are "Ancient" breeds. My little Italian Greyhound - is an Ancient Breed. My Beagle, is an Ancient breed (both over 2000 years). About 60-80% (my estimate) of dog breeds have had HUMAN intervention to create them! Why is it NOW that people are saying its wrong? Geez, we wouldnt have some wonderful, wonderful breeds of dogs if that had been said 50 years ago. Its not like there was some magic moment in time that it suddenly became WRONG to mix breeds of dogs. Sorry, i just get a bit irritated at silly things. " I agree with you. I am sick about reading posts from the KKK of the dog ownership community. When dogs mate, they do not ask to see each others registration papers or see the vet to check for genetic issues. Dogs are animals, and they will intermix if left on their own. A purebred is not 'better genetically' than a crossbreed. In fact, many purebreeds are nortorious for certain genetic dispositions that can cause problems e.g. eyes on shar-pei. Crossbreeds and mongrels are not cloned animals with inherent genetic defects. Animals evolved nicely before humans came along and manipulated the gene pool through breeding. It's called 'natural selection'. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Chrisy135	5. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 24 2008, 12:05 PM EDT i think that its fine to breed designer dogs. The reason there are so many dogs in the animal shelters is because people aren't being responsible, and we need to make some way to stop it. I decided not to get my first dog from a shelter, because you never know what problems they have. I'd much rather get dogs from that knows what theyre doing, and can tell me the past of the dogs. My cousins adopted dogs. One bites people, and it only lets a few people pet it. The other, is the nicest black lab i've ever seen. It lets their kids dress it up, and is trained. With rescue dogs, anything could happen. Now, don't get all mad at me. I think that people should get dogs from shelters if they are able to, but some people aren't. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
martincn	6. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 24 2008, 4:40 PM EDT "i think that its fine to breed designer dogs. The reason there are so many dogs in the animal shelters is because people aren't being responsible, and we need to make some way to stop it. I decided not to get my first dog from a shelter, because you never know what problems they have. I'd much rather get dogs from that knows what theyre doing, and can tell me the past of the dogs. My cousins adopted dogs. One bites people, and it only lets a few people pet it. The other, is the nicest black lab i've ever seen. It lets their kids dress it up, and is trained. With rescue dogs, anything could happen. Now, don't get all mad at me. I think that people should get dogs from shelters if they are able to, but some people aren't." If you get a dog from a shelter that bites, you have a problem for one of three reasons. First, the shelter notified the owner that the dogs was aggressive and they didnt care. Second, it was a bad place the dog was adopted from, and it didnt undergo the proper assessment before it was adopted. Third, the dog somehow picked up the biting habit after it was adopted. I dont which of these happened but I do know if you get a dog from a reputable shelter, problems like adopting a dog that bites wont occur. I am also pretty sure you can take the dog back if there is a problem with it, like biting. It works the same way with a breeder. If you choose a reputable breeder, you shouldnt have problems from the get-go, unless it is hereditary and shows up later in life, (which most good breeders will have a way of compensating you if this occurs), or it is a behavioral problem caused by poor training or something else on the part of the owners. However, there are also many disreputable breeders that can give you a dog that they claim to know the past of. I live in Pennsylvania, one of the biggest puppy mill states in the country. One of the biggest offenders of this, unfortunately, are the Amish. I know for a fact that they are breeding, for example, Boston Terriers that are not purebred. These dogs are AKC registered, and so are their parents, so you "know the history" of the dogs. What you dont know is that they are being bred with other terriers to keep the free-whelping, which makes more of a profit for the breeders. My point is, if you do your research, you can get the same perfectly wonderful dog from either a breeder or a SHELTER. As for designer breeds, they arent an actual breed until there is some standard set for the breed. You dont have to register with the "KKK" of dogs to do this either, since there are many other registries out there. Just dont complain when you want to be considered a breed and dont want to put in the work. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
martincn	7. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 24 2008, 4:53 PM EDT "About 60-80% (my estimate) of dog breeds have had HUMAN intervention to create them! Why is it NOW that people are saying its wrong? Geez, we wouldnt have some wonderful, wonderful breeds of dogs if that had been said 50 years ago. " An irritating yet silly thing is when people have their facts wrong. Most of the breeds that are popular today werent created fifty years ago, but rather much longer before that. German Shepherds have been around since before 1891, when a group of enthusiasts got together to start to form the breed standard. The Golden retriever has been around since the early 1800's. 100% of all dog breeds have had human intervention to create them, or they would still be wolves! (or coyotes, or whatever it is that science thinks they are linked closest to at the moment). And yes, all of these breeds started by crossing on type of dog with a desirable trait with another dog containing a desirable trait. When people complain about needing to see papers for dogs in order to breed them, it is to try to prevent the health problems that would be caused. In fact, dogs are bred smarter than people! If there is a dog with bad eyes, you dont want to breed it to another dog, so the genetic issue isnt passed on. With humans, this isnt even considered, since it can be treated. With dogs, we are trying to maintain genetics, whether it be two purebreds or a poodle and a husky. Why should these dogs mate if the outcome is sure to be riddled with health problems? That is an issue that most people dont seem to notice. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Chiweenershnitzel	8. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 24 2008, 5:33 PM EDT I know this might sound a little bit sad, but I don't really have a thought-out opinion on this subject. I guess you can take either side... we all have a right to believe what we want to. We have free will! I think reasoning on both sides is very convincing, but I'm just going to remain neutral... good thoughts, though! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Chiweenershnitzel	9. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 24 2008, 5:46 PM EDT "I have to disagree with your post on several points. The first is your statement about the Italian Greyhound and the Beagle - they are not a pure ancient breed. While they may have ancient roots, both breeds have been created, and changed by humans. Over the years, humans have established a standard to breed to, and that's the foundation of today's Greyhound and today's Beagle. And that's also getting to the point. When people create a BREED, they do so with a purpose. Terriers were bred to go after vermin - therefore they needed to be quick, agile, prey driven, and low to the ground. In all established breeds, a breed goal and breed standard are set, and if you have two registered, proven (titled) dogs, you have a pretty good chance of saying that the pups from the litter will comply with the breed standard in looks as well as function (save for genetic mutations and recessive genes). Designer dogs cannot be considered dog breeds because nobody is actually making an effort to establish new BREEDS. They are setting no goals nor standards for the hybrids they are creating. They are not picking dogs that have the traits they want to pass on, or the traits they want to breed out, because that would take generations of selective breeding. I have not yet seen any breeder of designer dogs attempt to actually do anything but breeding two random dogs and selling the offspring for big money. One exception I will note are the Australian breeders who started the Australian Labradoodle breed. They were looking for a smart working dog that could assist the disabled - but one that would work for people with allergies. Their breeding program is actually that - a breeding program. With set goals, a set standard, and years of selective breeding and genetic research. Which is something these "designer dog" breeders cannot claim." After reading more info, I have to agree with you. (I had said in an earlier thread that I didn't really have an opinion on this subjuct, but now I do.) Your reasoning is very good. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
martincn	10. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 24 2008, 11:43 PM EDT Thank you! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Chrisy135	11. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 25 2008, 4:35 PM EDT I don't care much about it, but i say that desighner dogs shouldn't just be stopped being bred, cause i love my Morkies! Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
martincn	12. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 25 2008, 6:07 PM EDT "I don't care much about it, but i say that desighner dogs shouldn't just be stopped being bred, cause i love my Morkies! " No one ever said anything about stopping them from being bred! We were simply saying that "designer breeds" aren't breeds at all, but mixes that fetch a hefty price. I have nothing against your Morkie, or anyone else's designer mix. I would rather see people look for a dog in a shelter before they turn to a breeder, but I also realize that a dog that would be ideal for someone may not always be available, so I have no problem with purchasing a dog from a reputable breeder. Puppy mills or pet stores are a completely different story, however, and that is a topic best saved for another thread. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Chrisy135	13. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Aug 26 2008, 7:47 PM EDT I just adopted a dog! He is really nice, but i don't know what kinds he is! I know he is german shepard, but i don't know what else. If you have any ideas, tell me! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
meyati	14. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 25 2009, 1:19 AM EDT \| Post edited: Mar 26 2009, 10:27 AM EDT The American Foxhound was developed by George Washington by breeding English & French hounds. He had standards for size, confirmation and traits-which includes good tracking abilities in the wilderness. The other hounds were developed with standards that have been passed down for a few hundred years. These are breeds-they have standards-calling mixes that don't have standards a breed is a misnomer-hound people can hear my bluetick bawl and know that he's one without ever seeing him. That's what a standard is and they were created for a purpose-keeping 5 racoons from ruining an acre of corn every night-protecting the family from unfriendlies-watching the kids- These designer dogs are loved by lots of people, but would they love another dog if a morkie didn't exist? Think about it-certain dogs have certain traits & we like some traits so we like that breed. Many rescue groups & humane societies now have a person visit the dog first & see if the dog & person are compatible-so don't put down shelters because you got bit by a shelter dog. When I got my 2 hounds from a shelter-one was in perfect health-one had a parasite-stomach trouble-but the meds took care of that. I've seen private kennels that weren't as clean. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
maximusandz	15. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 25 2009, 8:55 PM EDT designer people? How many of you have dated some one cause they looked good, historically, for race, for political marriages.......Dogs will do and people will do what they do. What we do not want are abandoned dogs, or dogs suffering from genetic anomolies. We would all like a perfect world, and to find out how to achieve it........... Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
meyati	16. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 26 2009, 10:37 AM EDT Well put, Maximusandz!! Just don't call some mix a breed until there are standards of size-body shape-voice-ears-tail-basic temperment-legs-long-short or medium-big feet or little feet-type of fur-i said type not lenghth or curly because I'm thinking of Chihuahuas- In this economy-a person should really consider a shelter. Most shelters are clean-while many breeders chain the female & she & her pups live in feces-Some pet stores are being sued for unhealthy purebred and designer dogs. Think about it!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
conexxions3	17. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 26 2009, 12:40 PM EDT "I just adopted a dog! He is really nice, but i don't know what kinds he is! I know he is german shepard, but i don't know what else. If you have any ideas, tell me!" Did you ever figure out what else was in the mix? Did you ever post a picture of him? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
meyati	18. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 26 2009, 3:02 PM EDT yeah a big pic, so we can see-the main thing is the dog's temperment and your compatibility. If you love each other-nothing else counts- Post reply Do you find this valuable?
peekapoocheckers	19. RE: "Designer" Dogs? Mar 27 2009, 12:03 PM EDT We love our "designer" dog - he's terrific! Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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